Train tickets are confusing

[lnr]

I'm sure train ticketing was supposed to have got more easy to understand. This weekend I took a train from Shelford to Harpenden - travelling down the Liverpool Street line to Tottenham Hale, getting the Victoria Line tube to Kings Cross St Pancras, and then getting a train from St Pancras to Harpenden. Apparently the off-peak return for this journey should have been £52.50 - but when I went to buy one from the ticket machine at Shelford station this ticket wasn't available. In fact the machine refused to believe Harpenden even existed - so in a rush not to miss my train I bought the first return I could think of to London - an off-peak return to London Terminals costing £22.60.

So I got to Tottenham Hale - and since I'd thought I would have a cross-London ticket with me I hadn't brought my Oyster Card - and had to pay the full price single fare from Zone 3 to Zone 1 - which is £4.30. At St Pancras I bought my return to Harpenden which was another £22.50. I had an utterly fantastic time at Heather's HenFest (see photos on Facebook) before coming home again on Sunday, and paying another £4.30 on the tube. This took my total fare to £53.70 - amazingly only £1.20 more than the off-peak return should have been. And in fact if I'd had my Oyster with me it would have been *cheaper* to split the tickets this way.

Not being 100% sure I'd actually been supposed to use a London Terminals ticket to Tottenham Hale (though the guys checking tickets on the way in and out just waved me through they did barely glance at it) I figured I'd have a quick check online - and it turns out that though an off-peak return to London Terminals (valid from Shelford to Liverpool Street) is £22.60 the off-peak return to Tottenham Hale (one stop shorter on the same train) is supposed to be £30.20! I'm now completely baffled to say the least!

I do wonder if I should complain to Greater Anglia though, given that their machine failed to sell me a ticket which would have been cheaper than the ones I did get! But I'm also wondering if in future I may be able to find other journeys which are cheaper on two tickets plus Oyster than on the cross-London fare!

(Edit: I've just checked and the zone 1-3 off-peak Oyster fare is £2.60 - which would have reduced the total price to £50.30 - so if the Terminals ticket *is* valid to Tottenham Hale it looks like it really is actually cheaper to buy two returns and use Oyster on the tube than buy a return all the way through).

Comments

[lnr]

Actually I'll mail them:

Dear Greater Anglia,

On Saturday I travelled from Shelford to Harpenden, returning the following day. I understand that there is an off-peak return available for this journey which is priced at £52.50. However when I went to tickets from the machine at Shelford station I was appalled to find that it was not possible to buy a ticket to Harpenden. (I typed H A R and was offered several stations including Harlow Town - but once I added the P there were no destinations available). In the end I bought an off-peak return to London Terminals (£22.60), paid two single tube fares across London at £4.30 each, and bought at off-peak return from St Pancras to Harpenden (£22.50) - in total this cost £53.70.

This means that being unable to buy the ticket I wanted from your machine cost me £1.30 - as well as considerable anxiety and time in buying extra tickets. I'm also concerned I may have accidentally used my London Terminals ticket in a way which was not actually valid since I changed at Tottenham Hale rather than Liverpool Street - and possibly I should have actually bought a more expensive return to Tottenham Hale.

Please could you let me know (preferably by email rather than phone):

- why the ticket was not available at the machine in Shelford
- whether I can re-claim my £1.30 of extra fare
- whether my London Terminals ticket was valid to Tottenham Hale

Many thanks,

Eleanor Blair

[viclet.livejournal.com]

I believe a lot of people split tickets these days, but I suspect that if you miss one of the trains due to a previous one being late/the underground being screwed, they wouldn't have to let you on a later train (if you have reserved seats), whereas if you book it straight through they do. I suspect a lot of journeys will be cheaper though, especially for me as I have an Oyster card through work, so I always tend to book from the train terminal rather than where I start off.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Is it supposed to have got easier? I don't remember hearing anything except "it's got more and more complicated". I almost hate buying tickets at all :(

[twigletzone.livejournal.com]

What I've heard is that the government (yes, even the Coalition) is actually taking an interest in rail fares because they're so high and so overcomplicated. Which would suggest that it hasn't happened yet...

[mair_in_grenderich]

Tottenham Hale is not a London Terminal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_station_group). (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/crossing_london.html#terminals)

On the other hand you can get a return to St Pancras whereby you change onto a tube at Tottenham Hale, for 28.80 - which doesn't beat the overall return price for Harpenden, of course, but just adds to the confusing price layering.

[catyak]

A lot of return tickets allow you to break the return journey, so getting on at Tottenham Hale doesn't mean you didn't get there from Liverpool Street and change trains. If they're using electronic ticketing then they could probably track that but probably don't. If all else fails, you could continue on to Liverpool Street and take a tube from there, it's still Zone 1 so it would just take you longer.

D

[theinquisitor.livejournal.com]

I think I've heard mention of a website that attempts to suggest split tickets for you, for any given journey. Not, I hasten to add, an officially endorsed one, but I heard it described in positive terms. No names spring to mind, but if it really exists, I daresay it will be easy enough to find.

[samholloway.livejournal.com]

I think I can explain why you saw a more expensive ticket from Shelford <-> Tottenham Hale, than for Shelford <-> London Terminals. (My copy of Avantix is a little out-of-date so I can't match exactly the fares you're seeing.)

An 'any permitted' ticket from Shelford to Tottenham Hale is valid via the following routes:
Shelford direct to Tottenham Hale (going through Bishop's Stortford, Harlow etc)
Shelford - Cambridge - King's Cross (or Moorgate) - Liverpool St (?) - Tottenham Hale (? because I'm not sure whether you can just go straight to Tottenham Hale rather than via Liverpool St)

There is also a 'Not London' Shelford to Tottenham Hale, which is only valid via the first of those routes.

A Shelford to London Terminals ticket 'any permitted' is also valid both ways, but as soon as you reach a London Terminal, you have to stop.

So in theory, the 'any permitted' Shelford to Tottenham Hale allows for some cross London travel, and is hence more expensive.

The rules however are STUPIDLY COMPLICATED and I may have entirely misinterpreted them.

[bjh21.livejournal.com]

One thing that no-one else seems to have noted: most stations have notices saying that if the ticket machine won't sell you the ticket you want, you should buy either a ticket for part of your journey or a Permit to Travel, and then exchange this for the correct ticket (paying only the difference in price) when you finally reach a staffed station. I've done this once: going Elsenham → Broxbourne → Hertford East → Hertford North → Stevenage → Cambridge on a Permit to Travel and then swapping it for a Cambridge ↔ Hertford return when I got to Cambridge.